Dick Fischer wrote on Friday, July 12, 2002 1:46 PM
>
>
>Gordon Simons wrote:
>
>>Glenn,
>>
>>This would appear to improve the attractiveness of your thesis of a
>>very ancient Adam.
>
>Not so fast. Glenn's position (unless it has changed) has been that
>Adam and Noah lived within the Mediterranean basin immediately prior
>to the time of the infilling of the Mediterranean sea about 5.5
>million years ago. His task has been to find evidence of hominid
>remains and artifacts dated far enough back in time to make this
>scenario plausible.
>
>Now all of a sudden, hominid remains are found in Chad that pre-date
>the infilling of the Mediterranean sea by over one half billion
>years!
Gee whiz, hominids in the Cambrian! What a discovery!!!! Dick, you
obviously mis-wrote. It is half a million not half a billion!
His problem is now just the reverse. He has to find ways to
>push pack the geological evidence to fit the new anthropological
>evidence.
Not quite so quick, my friend. That was indeed my first response--it is too
old, but after some thought it doesn't harm me at all. First you, clearly
need to refresh your memory of what my scenario has said. My scenario is as
follows, from my webpage http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/synop.htm
(comments below)
-----begin----
The apes have 48 chromosomes; we have 46 (Johanson and Edey, p. 138, 275).
If we arose from the apes,(as I believe we did) there must have been a
chromosomal fusion (there are also other differences like inversions of
certain segments etc). The data clearly shows that it man's chromosome 2 is
the combination of two ape chromosomes. The banding in chromosome 2 are
identical to the banding in 2 ape chromosomes. ( Yunis and Prakash, 1982, p.
1526)
The biggest piece of evidence in my mind connecting us to the apes is a) the
extreme similarity in DNA (99%) and b) the existence of pseudogene
insertions at the same locations in man, chimp, gorilla and orangutan. (Max,
1986, p.42; 1990, p. 48) A pseudogene is a BROKEN gene which is found in a
part of the genome far removed from its normal position. The pseudogene has
lost the control information which informs the cellular machinery how to
make the protein and thus it does nothing. Since the pseudogene does not
perform any useful function it can not be claimed to be the result of
design. Designers do not design broken parts! Thus the pseudogene is an
error in DNA copying. As noted above, this same error has been found at the
same location in the four species listed above. What are the odds of this
happening by chance? About the same as this: Let 4 different people go to
four different towns with the instructions to type a copy of Gibbon's
_Decline and Fall_. Sometime during the typing each of the 4 are to stop,
randomly select one paragraph from somewhere else in the book and insert the
paragraph where they stopped. They then continue typing the rest of the
book. Do you believe that the 4 people would not only choose the same
paragraph, but also choose the same spot to insert it into their copy? If
you believe this, then you can believe that the pseudogene was produced by
pure chance. To believe this is pure lunacy. Thus the pseudogene requires
that the humans, chimps, gorillas and orangutan be related. Any Biblical
interpretation which expects to survive the scrutiny of modern science needs
to handle this piece of data. Currently no conservative view of the Bible
addresses this problem.
Biblically, it states that God made man from the dust of the ground, that He
breathed the breath of life into the man, and that the man was alone--no
Eve. This would appear to contradict evolution. God is also described as
being actively and supernaturally involved in the creation of man. And that
man's spirit is somehow different from that of the animals. Is there a way
to put all this together? I believe there is.
Assume that God was ready to create a being who was "made in His image".
During this time, there was among the physical ancestor of man a very rare
mutation -- a chromosomal fusion. But this error was almost always fatal.
God took one of these creatures, a still born, fixed him, and blew his
breath into him. Why do I have God make Adam in this fashion? Because of
what God said when Adam sinned. If you remember the verse Genesis 3:19 God
said, "for dust you are and to dust you shall return." A dead body is
"dust." Adam came from dust and to dust he now will return.
-----end web page----
In order for this scenario to be true, there had to have been hominids PRIOR
to when God breathed the soul into that poor creature described above.
Thus, the discovery of hominids prior to 5.5 myr doesn't hurt but actually
confirms what SHOULD have been my expectation.
The error you (and I made) in our expectations was one of logic. IN my
scenario not all hominids have to be spiritually human because we did evolve
from the hominids; but all spiritual humans are hominids. And, given that I
mark the origin of humanity at the chromosomal fusion the existence of
earlier hominids is a requirement for my views. THere has to be a hominid
within whose lineage the fusion occurred.
>
>Those who have been on this list long enough know that my stance has
>been that Adam of Genesis lived about 7,000 years ago in southern
>Mesopotamia, and he is the father of the
>Adamites/Semites/Israelites/Jews, not the father of all humanity as
>has been commonly presumed. Thus early hominids, whatever the date,
>do not threaten my case.
Nor mine.
>How about it Glenn, have I gained a convert, or simply agitated an
>old adversarial friend?
Nothing worthy of either conversion or agitation has occurred in this note.
But, if I were to convert to your views, Dick, I would become an adherent of
the Sumerian religion. You always give precedent to Sumerian accounts over
the Judaic accounts of human history. If the Sumerian religion is the one
which is true, and the Judaic account always seems in need of correction by
the Sumerian, it seems logical to me to beleive the sumerian religion.
glenn
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
for lots of creation/evolution information
anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
personal stories of struggle
>
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