retry on sin & science

From: george murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Thu Mar 14 2002 - 08:45:53 EST

  • Next message: Howard J. Van Till: "Re: ASA perspective"

            We've been having speradic problems with our provider & this
    apparently didn't go to the list yesterday.
            ___________________________--

            Vernon raises a valid question here: If we take the idea of
    original sin
    seriously, how can we trust our reasoning about the world that leads to
    conclusions such as evolutionary theory, the age of the earth, &c? But
    as an
    objection to those conclusions, the argument won't hold up.
            First, original sin has to do primarily with our relationship
    with God -
    we are unable to have "true fear of God and true faith in God." Of
    course that
    has implications for the way we deal with other people and the natural
    world as
    well. But even those who have held a very tough view of original sin
    have not
    denied that the natural human being is capable of understanding the 10
    Commandments as civil law, and are able to refrain from murder,
    adultery, &c.
    I.e., even fallen humanity is capable of functioning in the world - &
    this
    requires some understanding of the world.
            Secondly, no one raises the original sin objection to the
    results of
    science when they're not being related to issues of origins or age of
    the earth.
    When nuclear physicists measure decay rates of some isotopes carefully &
    say that
    half a sample _would_ decay in 4.5 x 10^9 yr or whatever, nobody says
    "But
    original sin is distorting your reason so we can't trust that result."
    It's then
    incumbent on the person raising this objection to the age of the earth
    to say at
    just what stage of applications of scientific results to radioactive
    dating
    original sin introduces an error.

    Shalom,

    George

    George L. Murphy
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    "The Science-Theology Interface"

    Vernon Jenkins wrote:

    > John,
    >
    > You wrote (10 Mar): "As you know, we have a couple (of) YECs who lurk
    here
    > and sometimes post. They have a rough time of it because so many of us
    are
    > quick to jump on their arguments. When you get six rebuttals to a
    single
    > post, it does not take too long to determine that answering them is
    not a
    > good use of time."
    >
    > It is possible that I am one of those you had in mind. However, the
    point I
    > wish to make at this time has wider implications than the mere defence
    of
    > YEC.
    >
    > Christians on the ASA list will know that the Scriptures paint a sorry

    > picture of post-Edenic man: he is portrayed as an enemy of God and of
    His
    > Christ (eg Ps.2); a creature of evil imagination from his youth
    (Gn.8:21);
    > and deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked (Jer.17:9). A
    > devastating indictment indeed! - and one that goes a long way toward
    > explaining many of the world's ills, and the progressive undermining
    of God's
    > Word by generations of higher critics and a largely unbelieving and
    powerful
    > intellectual establishment.
    >
    > Clearly, if the biblical strictures are to be believed (and why not? -
    since
    > they provide the raison d'etre for Incarnation, Cross and
    Resurrection!) then
    > they represent a fundamental barrier to our understanding of the
    Creator and
    > a proper assessment of His work in creation.
    >
    > Those on this list who question the sanity of the YEC position should
    let us
    > know where they stand in respect of this foundational matter. Do they
    accept
    > God's assessment of man's essential nature, or not? If not, then why
    not?
    > And, if so, do they therefore proceed to accept that views so
    confidently
    > expressed, and conclusions so stridently declared, in respect of earth
    and
    > life history may be merely the fruits of potentially-flawed cognitive
    > processes? - perhaps living examples of the 'evil imaginations' we
    read about
    > in Gen.8:21!
    >
    > I suggest it behooves us all to accept gracefully, and with humility,
    that we
    > can be hopelessly wrong in our understanding of what is, and what is
    not
    > true. That is why God has deemed it necessary to provide us with a
    body of
    > 'revealed truth' . If we are wise, we will grasp this as does a
    drowning man
    > the lifebelt thrown him!
    >
    > Sincerely, and with regards,
    >
    > Vernon
    >
    > http://www.otherbiblecode.com



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