Note: the previous messages were off-list, but both parties are willing to let anyone else in on the discussion, if interested. >> is me, > is Iain
>>The Bible specifically asserts that God is sovereign over the outcome of casting lots, in addition to being sovereign over everything, so such mathematical randomness is no problem for Christians (or most other religions).
>
>However, I'm not sure the above is what you meant here. Are you suggesting that God could load the dice according to His purposes; so if He wanted evolution to proceed in a particular way, that He would cause one mutation to occur at a particular time? (And pardon my ignorance of terminology, but is this what is understood by the term "theistic evolution"?)
>
I should have said in what way it is not a problem. Mathematical randomness is not a valid challenge to God's sovereignty, because the Bible specifically asserts His control over such. Exactly how that works, on the other hand, is certainly not known any better than the general issue of how God interacts with creation. Different theological views (more Arminian or Calvinistic) would generally correspond with different inclinations as to the nature of God's interaction. My own views being Calvinistic, I would guess that either the results were built into creation from the start or else God specifically determines the outcome of "random" events. As you note, in principle this is not especially different from a miracle. However, God is no less involved in the ordinary processes of creation than in miracles. I would consider the difference to be whether natural laws are set aside (including prediction of future events). As miracles seem to function primarily as authentic!
ation of revelation, there seems little need for them in creation, and so I would be more inclined to think that a given mutation resulted from the organism being at just the right place and time for a particular cosmic ray to hit the right spot in the DNA, the cosmic ray in turn resultig from just the right nova which derives from the precise arrangement of matter in the Big Bang, rather than God poking the DNA more directly. Someone with fairly Armenian views may be comfortable with the suggestion that God allows some things to just happen randomly, although producing a specific result with lots must involve some sort of divine control.
Theistic evolution would refer to any view in which God used biological evolution as the basic method of creating living organisms. Exact details would vary somewhat, as well as what views would be included or excluded and also depending on whether the definer is sympathetic or hostile.
>>
>> Finally, randomness may be used in a more philosophical or ontological sense to imply purposelessness or lack of direction, e.g. random violence. From a Biblical perspective, nothing is ultimately random in this sense. However, evolution is a pattern of nature and so has no purpose or goal of its own. In this sense it is quite Biblical to assert that evolution is purposeless, because only God gives ultimate purpose to things.
>
>How do you see this happening in practice?
>
I am not quite certain what the this refers to. Given the general nature of your questions, I think it is how God achieves his purpose through a process such as evolution that lacks inherent direction. I believe a large part of the answer is simply that He is smarter and wiser than we are. In hindsight we can see some of how everything works out for good, but predicting what will happen is beyond our abilities. No doubt God knew long before the appearance of the first chordate that this lineage would lead to man and the incarnation, but the earliest fossils don't look particularly special to anyone who does not realize that these are our ancestors. Certainly this is the way God works in history. The people of Ur may not have given any thought to a couple of old folks changing religion and moving away with their family, yet the impact of Abraham on later history is enormous.
>Again, I still have a problem in seeing _how_ God uses randomness, unless you are stating that God is in fact the source of the randomness.
>
If the randomness is real and not just an expression of our ignorance, then God is its source.
Dr. David Campbell
"Old Seashells"
Biology Department
Saint Mary's College of Maryland
18952 E. Fisher Road
St. Mary's City, MD 20686-3001 USA
dcampbell@osprey.smcm.edu, 301 862-0372 Fax: 301 862-0996
"Mollusks murmured 'Morning!'. And salmon chanted 'Evening!'."-Frank Muir, Oh My Word!
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Feb 23 2001 - 14:39:55 EST