Any thought on Hugh Ross' explanation of these issues:
From Creation and Time:
Romans 5:12 says, "Sin entered the world through one man, and death through
sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned." Some
interpret this as implying that no death of any kind occurred before the sin
of Adam, and, hence, only a few days could possibly have transpired from the
creation of the first life forms to the sin of Adam. However, the absence
of physical death would pose just as much a problem for three 24-hour days
as it would for three billion years. Many species of life cannot survive
hours without food, and the mere ingestion of food requires at least the
death of plants or plant parts. Recognizing the problems of reading Romans
5:12 as a statement about physical death, others have interpreted the verse
as meaning "soulish" death. In the Genesis creation account, distinctions
are made between physical animals (invertebrates and lower vertebrates),
soulish animals (birds and mammals), and spirit beings (man). The
difficulty with this adjusted view is that soulish animals are not condemned
to "death through sin." Of all life on Earth, only man earned the title
"sinner." The key point is that Romans 5:12 is addressing neither physical
nor soulish death. When Adam sinned, he instantly "died", just as God said
he would; "In the day you eat of it, you shall surely die" - Gen. 2:17. Yet
he remained alive physically and soulishly. He died spiritually. He lost
his fellowship with God and gained a natural inclination to defy God. Gen.
3 records that after Adam died "spiritually" through sin, then God sent an
angel to block his access to the Tree of Life.
16. Bloodshed before Adam's sin does not alter the doctrine of atonement.
Hebrews 9:22 says, "in fact, the law requires that nearly everything be
cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no
forgiveness." Ken Ham of the Institute for Creation Research interprets the
verse this way, "The basis of the Gospel message is that God brought in
death and bloodshed because of sin." As he explains, "If death and bloodshed
of animals or man existed before Adam sinned, then the whole basis of
atonement - the basis of redemption - is destroyed."
Hebrews 10:1-4 explains that the blood of animal sacrifices will not take
away sin. The sacrificial killing of animals was a physical picture of the
spiritual death caused by sin, which necessitated the death of a substitute
to make atonement, as well as foreshadowing of the ultimate, efficacious
sacrifice that God himself would provide. Since the penalty for sin is
spiritual death, no animal sacrifice could ever atone for sin. The crime is
spiritual. Thus the atonement had to be made by a spiritual being. The
spilling of blood before Adam's sin in no way affects or detracts from the
doctrine of atonement. Upholding that central doctrine in no way demands a
creation scenario in which none of God's creatures received a scratch or
other blood-letting wound before Adam and Eve sinned.
"The subjection of the creation to "its bondage of decay" does not restrict
the length of creation days. Romans 8:20-21 says, "For the creation was
subjected to frustration (or futility - NKJV), not by its own choice, but by
the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will
be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom
of the children of God." Some claim this passage implies that Adam's sin
ushered in physical death, natural decay, and increasing entropy. They
conclude that decay and death did not occur until Adam sinned. Thus, the
time from the universe's creation to Adam's fall must be brief enough to
explain the lack of evidence for a period devoid of decay and death. While
it's obvious that freedom from decay could not extend through billions of
years, it is less obvious but equally certain that it could not last for
even one 24-hour day. Without decay, work (at least in the current
universe) would be impossible. Without work, physical life would be
impossible. But life did exist according to according to Genesis 1, at
least from the third day of creation onward. Thus, Romans 8:20-21 could not
be inferring that Adam's sin inaugurated the process of decay. Actually,
Romans 8 explicitly indicates only when the bondage to decay will end. It
says little about when it first began. Verse 22 applies to the entire
creation groans and labors with birth pangs until now. This in turn, seems
to imply that the process of decay has been in effect since the universe was
created. It is just as likely that the text refers to another kind of decay,
the disorder in man's life that resulted from his rebellion against God. In
Gen. 1:28 God commanded man to maintain his environment. But, since man
first sinned, the opposite has occurred. Man's effect upon his environment
is analogous to the result of sending a two year old to clean up his closet.
As one would need to wait for the two year old to grow up a little more
before expecting him to properly clean it up. So, too, the creation (and
the replacement of this universe with a new one) must wait for the human
race to overcome its problem of sin."
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Clarke
> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 12:49 AM
> To: Ted Davis
> Cc: Asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: Death before the fall
>
>
>
>
> Ted Davis wrote:
>
> > [snip]
> >
> > I will add a comment I've often made: this particular issue is IMO the
> > central theological issue for YECs. Death of any kind prior to
> human sin
> > (and only humans can sin) is such a black mark against the
> character of God,
> > that it is simply unthinkable. Hitchcock shows however that we
> must think
> > about it, and does so mainly on biblical grounds alone. Indeed
> anyone who
> > (like Hitchcock) takes the earth's antiquity for a fact, must
> accept animal
> > death before human sin.
>
> I agree. Death before the fall and the perceived theological
> implications for
> the atonement is the make or break issue for many YECs. Perhaps
> even more
> important than Biblical literalism. All the over issues are peripheral to
> these. if we are going to make any progress in talking with YECs
> (and they with
> us) these central theological issues need to be addressed.
>
> However, as with any classification, there are a few who will
> slip through the
> net. I am currently corresponding with someone who belives in
> the antiquity of
> the earth and universe, but only in a recent creation of life.
> As I recall
> Numbers' books discusses a number of such variants.
>
> Regards
>
> Jon
>
> >
> >
> > Ted Davis
>
>
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