I really do not want to get involved in this issue but it seems to me that
Johnson's point is to fight materialism from a position of strength,
philosophical and scientific, rather that from a position of faith, whatever
that may be. I see some merit in that. In fact, that is the way that I
myself argue. Of course, my Christian faith underlies my original objection
made by those who believe that all that matters is matter. To understand
Johnson you must think like a lawyer and let us face it that is the correct
mode of thinking when you are in an adversarial discussion.
Moorad
-----Original Message-----
From: glenn morton <mortongr@flash.net>
To: asa@calvin.edu <asa@calvin.edu>
Cc: Keith B Miller <kbmill@ksu.edu>; pnelson2@ix.netcom.com
<pnelson2@ix.netcom.com>; bill@desiderius.com <bill@desiderius.com>;
RCollins@messiah.edu <RCollins@messiah.edu>; philjohn@uclink4.berkeley.edu
<philjohn@uclink4.berkeley.edu>; wlcraig@bellsouth.net
<wlcraig@bellsouth.net>; mjb1@Lehigh.edu <mjb1@Lehigh.edu>;
stevemeyer@whitworth.edu <stevemeyer@whitworth.edu>; don@asa3.org
<don@asa3.org>; smorrison@ivcf.org <smorrison@ivcf.org>; acg-l@dordt.edu
<acg-l@dordt.edu>; evolution@calvin.edu <evolution@calvin.edu>
Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 12:39 AM
Subject: Phil Johnson's agenda
>
>I couldn't sleep because of this note written by Johnson. So, I came
>upstairs to write this. And this is a sad thing. Many may disagree with me
>on this but from my perspective Johnson's rather arrogant in-your-face
>message that Christianity is not on the top of his agenda bothers me. On
>the 18th of November I e-mailed Paul Nelson to cite some things that
>saddened me about the ID movement the main thing. One of them was Johnson's
>statement in Touchstone last summer. I am saddened that they want to remove
>the Bible from the public discussion. And what is so surprising to me is
>the willingness of the Christian publishers to go along with them by
>publishing their books that never seem to mention anything about
>Christianity or the Bible. It has occurred to me that Phil, in the letter
>below is merely being consistent with what he has been saying for a long
>time. He has said so on numerous occasions but no one has been listening.
>After tonight's letter from Keith, maybe people will listen a bit. First a
>repeat of this letter. (for those on the evolution reflector, you can find
>Keith Miller's entire original post at
>http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/199912/0013.html )
>
>>At 01:26 PM 12/3/99 -0500, Keith B Miller Quoted Phillip Johnson :
>>__________________________________________________________________________
___
>>>
>>>
>>>Keith:
>>>
>>>First, it is true that Jonathan Wells is a member of the Unification
>>>Church, and this fact has never been "hidden."
>>>
>>>Second, the Wedge (including the Discovery Institute) is an intellectual
>>>movement, not a church or confessional movement. We have no faith
>>>statement or religious requirement. Our objective is to bring before the
>>>literate public significant questions which are presently suppressed by
the
>>>cultural power of the scientific materialist establishment, aided as it
is
>>>by theistic evolutionists such as yourself. We welcome participation by
>>>all qualified persons who want to make it possible to follow the
scientific
>>>evidence where it leads, rather than being restricted by the dictates of
>>>methodological naturalism. For example, any Moslem or Mormon would also
be
>>>welcome to make an intellectual contribution to the scientific and
>>>philosophical debate -- especially if he or she were as capable as
Jonathan
>>>Wells.
>>>
>>>Third, this personal attack strikes me as an act of desperation. Why
don't
>>>you start thinking about the issues raised by Jonathan's excellent
>>>scientific publications, instead of grasping for some further excuse for
>>>ignoring the evidence for intelligent design in biology? Those papers
are
>>>available at the ARN web site, www.arn.org
>>>
>>>Finally, your threat to publish what is already widely known brings to
mind
>>>what the Duke of Wellington said to a lady who threatened to publish his
>>>amorous correspondence. You can look it up. And please do publish this
>>>message with your own.
>>>
>>>Phillip Johnson
>>>_________________________________________________________________________
___
>>>
>
>What strikes me is that given the support that the Christian community,
>Christian publishers and the Christian laity has given Johnson and his
>followers, he now basically says that religion doesn't matter to his
>movement. Yet he freely accepts all the benefits that the Christian press
>and laity give him. ARN, the place where he refers people, used to be a
>place Christians could count on to support the Bible, but it seems that
>they too have been subverted to this new Bible-less crusade. As I said,
>this is consistent with what he has been saying all along. From a recent
>Touchstone,
>
>"To put things on a more rational basis, the first thing that has to be
>done is to get the Bible out of the discussion." Philip Johnson,"The
>Wedge," Touchstone, July/August, 1999, p. 22,
>
>This of course implies that discussion can't be rational with the Bible in
>there. In fairness to Johnson, he says he wants to do that because people
>react to the Bible. Of course people react to the Bible, it is God's word.
>Apparently, Johnson and the ID people don't seem to think it is all that
>important. If that isn't enough, then here is Johnson 2 years ago on the
>PBS debate saying the same thing,
>
>"In fact I have said on many occasions and have urged persons in the
>conservative Christian community to put aside the Bible issues and let us
>ask the question what is actually known from scientific evidence as
>opposed to materialistic philosophy." PBS Debate broadcast Dec 19, 1997
>
>Why does Phil and the ID crowd run from the Bible? Are they ashamed of it?
>Phil apparently is and doesn't want to disturb those of other religions who
>might want to join him in his crusade NOT TO EVANGELISE but to knock down
>Darwin. And in their rush to kick at Darwin, they throw the Bible out of
>the public debate. Isn't this what the atheists want--to get the Bible out
>of the public discussion?
>
>While Phil may think it is 'desparation' to take note of Well's religion,
>it was not very forthcoming of the ID movement to never mention this little
>fact either. The Touchstone (July/Aug 1999) doesn't say anything about
>Wells being a minister for the Unification Church! Wells is said to have
>done religious studies at Yale but it makes no mention of this:
>
>"At the end of the Washington Monument rally in September, 1976, I was
>admitted to the second entering class at Unification Theological Seminary"
>Jonathan Wells,
>http://www.tparents.org/library/unification/talks/wells/DARWIN.htm
>
> How would anyone know this supposedly 'well known' fact that Johnson
>speaks of? It never appeared in any bio that I am aware of. It always
>seemed to be omitted! Frankly, I don't think the ID movement has been
>forthcoming and open with the Christian community in this regard.
>
>glenn
>
>Foundation, Fall and Flood
>Adam, Apes and Anthropology
>http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm
>
>Lots of information on creation/evolution