Re: Big Bang dissent

mortongr@flash.net
Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:47:18 +0000

At 11:07 PM 10/22/1999 -0600, Bill Payne wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:02:26 +0000 mortongr@flash.net writes:
>
>>And in the case of Arp, it is an assumption that the galaxies are
>>'physically connected.' If they are simply overlain on top of each
>>other
>>along the same line of sight, one far away one relatively near, then
>>one
>>has no anomalies.
>
>I can't say any more clearly than I have said that Arp has made
>meticulous observations over a period of 30 years and has conclusively
>demonstrated by observation that quasars are physically connected to
>galaxies. If you had studied his photographs and could explain in detail
>from his photographs why his conclusions are incorrect, that would be one
>thing. But for you to broad brush Arp with the statement: "And in the
>case of Arp, it is an assumption that the galaxies are 'physically
>connected' is uncharacteristic. You are the one known for doing the
>research necessary to refute an argument with data, not paint brushes.
>Maybe you would like to read Arp's more recent book, _Seeing Red_?

I have read Arp's Quasar's Redshifts and Controversies, (Berkeley:
Interstellar Medium, 1987). He presented the same claims that you are
citing from his newer book. You cite the quantization of redshifts. A
look at the chart in the earlier book (p. 113) shows peaks in numbers of
galaxies having a multiple of near 72 km/s in a cluster, but there are
galaxies which have values of redshifts intermediate. This is not a true
quantization as occurs in electronics. Also the chart shows a peak +200
km/s and - 108 km/s which is not a multiple of 72. So the data he presents
for quantization doesn't match his theory. Be a bit critical Bill. Don't
just accept anything someone says that contradicts the prevalent theory.
Christians are too prone to that disease--grabbing anything that is contrary.

Take the supposed connection between NGC 4319 (z=1700 km/s)and Markarian
205 (z=21,000 km/s) which is shown in figure 3-2 of QRC p. 34. This shows a
narrow bridge of light between the two objects. Such a situation can be due
to several things. The most likely is light reflected from dust around the
nearer NGC4319. Figure 3,1 shows that Markarian 205 is situated either
behind or within the dust from the nearer galaxy. ONe can see ths shadow
from the spiral. So, when light travels from Mark 205 to NGC4319 some of it
is reflected off the dust of the nearer galaxy and thus diverted towards
earth, making it appear as if there is a bridge of light between the two
objects.
It looks like this:

earth <================= NGC4319
<...... ===========-----
.................. --------
................----mark250
Where ... is the direct light to earth
------- is direct light to ngc4319
and
=========is the reflected light

Arp Writes:

"An observer experienced with large telescopes can look at a photographic
plate and ascertain from the sharpness, shape, and extent of an image
whether it is likely to be an emulsion defect or a real object in the sky.
This object was clearly real." p. 31

Of course it was real and not a photo problem. But it was a real reflection
of light, not a real bridge.

Now, Bill, please look at things a bit more critically. Not everyone who
challenges conventional wisdom is correct and to be listened to.

>
>>If vastly different redshifts were the rule, why don't
>>we see it in our own local galaxy cluster where the angular size is
>>large?
>
>I'm not sure I understand your question. As I understand Arp, his
>"discordant" redshifts are primarily between quasars and galaxies, not
>between galaxies in a cluster. And he does present an organizing
>hypothesis: the quasars are newly-created matter ejected from the core
>of galaxies. The younger the matter (quasar) the higher the redshift; as
>the matter ages, the redshift decreases.
>
>Bill
>
>
glenn

Foundation, Fall and Flood
Adam, Apes and Anthropology
http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm

Lots of information on creation/evolution